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I Built a Split wheel Motorcycle, But will it work?
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- Опубліковано 3 лют 2023
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Hey guys, just wanted to say that the reason for the bouncing up and down is due to the change in leverage. Since one of the wheels is further back it has more mechanical advantage over the suspension due to the increased distance of the swingarm
its also down to the fact the tyre is compressing too much cos there's no air in it, so when the rear most tyre hits the ground it with no weight on it the tyre is a normal shape so theres at least an inch of difference in height as the front most wheel is flat cos its carrying the weight of the rider, hence the bobbing up and down
no, it"s because the rearest one is higher off the ground, because the arm is not leveled! you need to make the arm levelen, and block the suspension, and VOILA! no bumping!
Its not the change in leverage since the swingarm isnt straight. The wheels are parallel to each other to the ground. Its because at the point where the tires end the tire compresses. Both tires compress more at the ends of the tire/wheel which brings the whole bike down. You could improve this by only removing 1/4 of each wheel is 1/2 the wheel.
Agree”
@Rivit That would probably help higher speeds but thats not what their immediate problem is. The farther back wheel has more leverage on the suspension so the bike sags more than on the front wheels.
The bicycle that did this was a hard tail
In order to completely reduce that bumpiness. Instead of a suspension use a stiff metal. what its doing is that, when the bike runs on the wheel closer to it, the stress the suspension endure is less, but when it runs on the further wheel, the stress or the weight the suspension carries increases. So, the suspension compresses at different rate when each wheel touches the ground, similar to that torque factor that your learned in 8th grade.
UAclips engineers 🤓
Ya know? I wonder if a single complete wheel would stop the bumpiness.
Little suspension for each wheel
@Heratiki its always fun with a bit of a mental exercise in trying to simulate something in your mind to identify the potential problems before they arise
@Soggy Biscotti Awesome. I love theorizing on stuff like this. Just wish a channel would put that much time into solving a complicated weird issues like this instead of “this didn’t work, let’s just send it”.
The nervous laughs as he was testing it out 😂😂😂
Shiting bricks!
Can´t await the Chineese copy...
😂😂😂😂
Instead of cutting the tires where you want them leave a bit more rubber on each end then bend that piece back so the loss of contact with the ground is more gradual. Also suspension to the end would keep it in contact better. Excellent video
Just my thoughts are the tire would need to be slightly more than half way in circumference to create a smoother transition from tire to tire. Right now there is a slight gap from the amount removed from the cutting in half portion , you need consider the amount removed from each (even as little as I might be. There still a gap, as well as there is no angle of entrance to help create a smooth transition from tire to tire.
I think you would need to cut 2 tires part the 180deg point for a better blend. Like maybe 190-200 degs. 🤔
And maybe some counter weights???
Yep, you need to change the suspension geometry so that it has a strut on the back wheel at a minimum. Otherwise, the weight will always be balanced towards the middle wheel, which means there will be a weight shift each time the wheel changes. Cool concept, though!
@Hell_Pike at higher speeds the rubber is expanding and flying off.
Exactly this, and I'm thinking at higher speeds the centurial forces are going to put different leverage on the swing arm, that problem would also be fixed by strutting the back wheel
needs to be placed between both rear wheels otherwise the center of mass will still primarily be on the front of the rear wheels, causing the middle wheel to compress and leading to the same leveraging issue, albeit to a slightly lesser extent. You got the closest out of anyone in the comments i've seen so far though so gw.
You actually could make an independent rear suspension version but it would require redistributing the weight and altering the frame and completely changing the suspension geometry etc.
Hey guys, self appointed B&B R&D Engineer here: I think part of the issue is the transition of one tire to the other. Perhaps in the example videos, their design wasn't a precisely half of a wheel but instead 60% (or something) so that both tires would have larger contact with pavement during transition. Right now with tires being 50% there's only the ends of the tire touching pavement and essentially squishing because there isn't the same distribution of weight as say the centre of the half tire compared to the end of a half tire. So perhaps the solution is to make the tire completely solid somehow so it doesn't squish and create a hop; that or a combination of cutting the wheel at 60%. BUT WAIT, there's more, MAYBE the suspension itself is an added obstacle and simply making it a hard tail like a road bicycle would remove the need to work around the suspension.
I stopped watching at 1:33, came here & read 76 comments to see if anyone mentioned the problem of the constantly alternating effective wheelbase causing trouble during a tight turn. Time to watch it try.
I think you're overcomplicating this. It's just the suspension and the constantly changing leverage point
Yeah, too bad they literally didn't bother to try to figure it out
What your saying and silicone inside the tires! 😅
@Kevin stoneburner incorrect because the idea is to always have only one half facing directly downward
You guys must be fun 😊 to work with. I like how you come up with your ideas on this bike, it's so freaking outside the box 🎁. I hope you don't change, this world needs more people like you guys. Your like the Nickolai Tesla of the
They got to him 😞
Don't you dare compare these to the genius that IS Nikola Tesla !
You should be ashamed of yourself.
The design looks like it would be applicable on off road and snow sections if it can switch itself from the street mode. Can't wait to see what future technology we can come up with.
Now that is called reinventing the wheel, of course half circle is unstable when turning high speed, you should put a weight balancer to those half wheels to avoid or even minimize the bumpy ride, don't give up, good luck to you guys, hope one day you might perfect those wheel concept.
The bumpiness is definitely due to the suspension, and if you gonna strengthen it to make the Wheels more stable on the bike's frame so it doesn't bumb that much, you should keep in mind that the 3 wheels HAVE to be aligned in a perfect line, otherwise the half wheels will rotate with different heights from the floor, hammering it every transition between the halfs
I don't actually know much about motorcycle, but i think some, or most have suspension on the front wheel as well, the distortion of the springs can be missaligning the wheels considering that both front and back wheel's height impacts on the tilt of the barr that hold the two half wheels
Instead of strapping the suspension down in the back, you need to install a solid strut to keep all three tires running on a flat plane. With the change in wheel base length, you are changing the leverage that your weight has on the shock, so it changes height with each half rotation of the tires. If you remove the shock motion, you will also remove the up down motion. Just weld in a solid vertical riser on both sides where you had the ratchet straps before. If your riser is too short or too long, you will still have a bumpy ride. If you get it the right length, the ride should smooth out.
the suspension is engineered for a specific swing arm length, when you transition to the half wheel in the farthest back the swing arm is basically longer and the lever effect on the suspension is greater, so it compresses more and so on.
@Curtis Johnson or maybe anchor the back of the swing arm and leave it anchored at the front too
And that my friends... is Science.
Swingarm extension needs to be able to move independently from swingarm
Well said, came here to say this, but probably would not have been as well said 😁
Thank you for putting my thoughts into words that made sense. I was also thinking the lack of tire under the back of the bike means more weight is supported by the suspension rather than the wheel, enhancing the lever effect.
The pivot point of the arm puts a load on the closer to pivot point wheel. Try lifting the rear about an inch so when you sit on the bike the weight distributes a bit more even on the tires but bumps will still be causing this hop problem
Maybe like a dual axle trailer. An equalizer arm in between the wheels would balance out even through bumps
I’m sure that’ll be another cool idea for another video
Looking forward to more 💪🏼
Think about leverage and lever length. As others have suggested, you'll need to change the suspension geometry, otherwise every time the weight transfers to the wheel with greater lever length, greater force is applied to the suspension and the swingarm will compress due to the shift in leverage.
I wanna see what would happen if you made it have three wheels beside one another, the outer two being in sync, the others the other way around.
I think it'd be a weird mindfuck to see how the brain would treat something that rapidly swaps between a trike and a bike
If you actually wanted that to work, you could mount the drive sprocket between the 2 wheel halves. Would require a lot more framing, of course. That would greatly reduce the leverage arm offset.
For bouncing issue, I think the first shortcut is to try adjusting tire pressures of each half to be different where the combo absorb most bouncing components until certain satisfactory level 😀
May be the front-half should have lesser pressure than the rear-half.
Dahmar ohh yeah, I missed the huge point.. ha hahh..
May be different hardness materials for each will do, but that's not the good shortcut.
Now I look closely again. I think the worst bouncing happen is not on either individual half. The highest point is where the transition; while edges of both half together touch the road. Not sure why it actually happen 🤔
The suspension will compress more when the weight is being suspended on the different axles. It's like holding a weight close to your body and then trying to hold the same weight at arm's length.
The only fix that springs to my mind is to in some way have the 2 rear wheels have independent suspension. That way, you can adjust each to compensate for the differing load.
Yup, hence why it was bouncing up and down
honestly just having a hardtail and making it suspension less makes a lot more sense
The only way to fix it is.........to never ever try this again.
@Daniel Klopp thanks professor. I’ve always pronounced it wrong … thus the source of the spelling error. But you found the flaw!
@LPL_fanboy how is getting the rear of the bike wet going to help??? 😉 The correct term is "damping", NOT "dampening" (dampening is getting something moist; damping is slowing spring compression or rebound). Also, damping has nothing to do with spring rate (i.e. the real source of the problem is a change in the effective rear spring rate as the wheelbase changes).
19:20 Note for why it's bouncing: Due to one wheel being further back and there only being two wheels it has a sorta situation like a lever, especially noteworthy due to the curvature of the earth making it more notable because the closer tire will be higher up, pushing up against the ground.
The earths flat bro, "Curvature" What an amateur
I don't think the curvature of the Earth really matters here
Lots of fun watching you guys! Got my laughs in. Like other's commented, I think 60% tires would be better and maybe some way to make them solid rubber tires.
The suspension is designed to work with the first tire so when it switches to the second one the pressure is further out thus dropping its weight and center off gravity is different
A simple fix would be to angle the new bar attaching the second tire slightly towards the ground. Thus the increase force created by the longer swing arm when the second tire hits is counter acted with reduced height from the pavement. Would need to be angled differently for each people of differing weights.
Great video. Hope my explanation made sense. Though I'm sure someone has already mentioned it and better, in the 6k plus comments!
DC
I believe this would have been better to have a hard tail suspension on the rear. The leverage the second wheel has is much greater, therefore the bike wants to squat a little more while the second tire is touching ground. Then of course pops back up with the original tire touching the ground. I bet it's a ton better with rigid rear suspension. Let me know when you throw another 5-10 grand of your time at my suggestion. lol
This was amazing! The bumpiness is due to the two wheels exert different leverages on the swingarm due to different distances from the fulcrum (point of rotation). Thus the spring compresses more when the weight of the bike is on the wheel that is farther away from the fulcrum, and less when the weight is on the closer wheel.
It also looked like the angle of the extension arm wasn't parallel to the original section.. it sort of angled down then made a slight turn to become level with the ground. I believe that would mitigate a bit of the springs compression as the extra travel would be compensated by having the arm further down away from the bike..
@AwesomeMcAwesome no, that didn't solve the fulcrum problem it only made the springs absorb and react less. If the wheels were on the same axis; it would fix part of the issue. If they stayed level with each other and used a different suspentsion then 1 wheel wouldn't be lifting the bike as it takes the load.
@Fritsified True that, was late when i was typing. But anyway the forces acting on the swing arm needs to be balanced equal from the both tires. Too early to do kinematics simulation I have not had my coffee yeat.
Repent to Jesus Christ “For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.”
2 Timothy 1:7 NIV
h
They used tank straps to bypass the suspension, so its not that.
The bump looks to be happening when the wheels swap contact, I’ll bet the bump is from the 2 end cuts being different heights. If you could make the ends of the tires more of a tapered entry instead of a blunt cut that may help with the bumping.
I don't think the bumpiness is due to the weight change. You have square cuts on each end. Taper the cuts back at an angle and see if that helps. It'll be a smoother transition to the next tire
I feel like it needs extra heavy suspension on the rear tire and the ability to pivot. Also maybe fold the inner tube in half or thirds and inflate it? Also what if you slightly oversize each tire/rim to a bit more than half then rivet the ends of the tread to the rim so they aren't wide open and they taper down then if you inflate something inside it won't burst out the ends
“Craig
I think we made
The perfect motorcycle”….. Craig-“yeah it’s almost
Like
Riding a shake weight” I laughed so hard I woke my wife up and got yelled at
I’m here in the comments to distract myself from the exact same situation happening at the same comment!
I think you need to raise the center wheel up a bit and extend the front wheel some to get rid of the bounce motion. The person's weight in the middle is affecting the center tire hitting the ground from the suspension.
I think you guys achieved making a motorcycle feel like you're riding a horse again.
Have you considered adding weight on the other side of each tire to balance it? Right now you have two off-set wheels throwing torque all around and definitely adding to your shake issue.
nah i don't think it works like that. my guess would be because of the suspensions, was reading some comments and saw someone says there were 2 different leverages, i think it's because of the further wheel not being close made the bike and rider heavier rather than the wheel closer thus makes the bike bounce when moving ( does that makes sense? ), it didn't make some bounce action on the bicycle video because it had none.
My father asked me what I'm watching and after showing him the thumbnail he said "Why in the hell would they do that to a functioning bike?" I laughed and replied because they are making entertaining content?😂.... that's the honestly best and only answer I could come up with.
There is 🅾️ reason this should have worked so well. Looked super cool
Keep the shenanigans coming! Love y’all!! Never disappoint
You mentioned wheelbase will constantly be changing, well there's the problem when you consider leverage. The swingarm is essentially a lever on the shock, so when you increase the length of the lever you change the amount of force on the spring. I bet if it was rigid (no shock) then it would ride "smooth" at least on a nice surface.
You get more leverage to compress the spring when it's riding on the rear wheel, kinda like when you're closing pliers, then it's easier to do when you're clamping on the end of the handle.
You could get rid of most of it by simply just riding without a spring and welding the whole thing so it doesn't have any suspension travel, or you could stiffen the spring.
Also, as another commenter said, you should have 55-60% of the tire left, so you get a smoother transition.
That's exactly what I am thinking too.
@DeepCarrot 6859 The 55% was just to get a smoother transition in general and not for the spring compression thing
100% correct, torque is a matter of force multiplied by distance, the further away the centre of the wheel is from the spring (rear-rear wheel is further than rear-front wheel) it will increase the amount of torque the being applying to the shock mount, therefor compressing the spring more on the rear wheel causing that bump effect.
the only way to completely eliminate this effect is by not cutting the wheels in half (no point in the video), welding/removing the shock (resulting in a bad ride) or have a hydraulic spring, changing the compression force to suit the torque each wheel is producing to the spring (extremely complicated - if its even possible)
if you were to have 55-60% of the wheel, it will make the torque transition smoother (correct again) but it will still have the same peak applied torque when there is just 1 wheel on the ground, which will only be noticeable at low speeds. at higher speeds, the slight extra length in circumference will become negligible
spot on man. I was thinking you put it on a chopper since they don't have suspension usually anyways. I didn't think of the 55-60% of the tire left, but that would probably help a lot too
here is an idea about how to solve bumping issue. There are two issues that I noticed. Leverage diffrence between both parts of the wheel and no overlapping.
First you need to extend the swing arm furher but do not change distance between both parts of the back wheel, move the front part of the back wheel further back instead that way leverage diffrence between two parts of the wheel relative to front one will be significantly less.
Then instead of cutting the wheels in half and having 1 whole wheel in total you'll need to cut out only 45% of the wheel so you can have two 55% wheel and one 110% of a wheel in total. That way having something extra on each half of the wheel you'll elimininate the possibility of that back wheel losing ground contact ever. even a split second loss of ground contact will result in significant bumping issue.
Would cut the tires at 190 degress instead of 180 so you are not left with a end that pancakes every time weight is distributed and the overlap might help transition the wheels better so you don't have a bumpy ride. I think also reinforcing the wheel with a metal bar across the open end would help with forces.
I would say the rough ride is due to the increase in leverage every Time the wheel base increases. So you need to lock the suspension out.
Love these types of videos. Would the ride be more comfortable if the second chain was under more tension?
Wow! What amazed me the most was how you guys stayed kool and had fun through all the innovation!
This man's actually going for a world record first!
Without Guinness!
@Mark holroyde They'll certify anything if you're the first to do it, and you pay them enough money
Need more than Guinness to get me on that for real...
It's bouncing due to the back back wheel being a little lower than the back wheel. The middle wheel needed to be slightly higher then the very back wheel to compensate for the dip (missing piece) of the wheel.
Apart from the levering issues that others have mentioned, each part (half) of the wheel would need to have a "circumference" of more than an 50% if you want phase alignment/overlap (if you look at it like a sine wave) ... basically due to the abrupt wheel cut and the added friction (ploughing in to the tarmac on each half rotation) their is a now dead spot in the "wave" (I guess a loss of angular momentum etc...).... even if these issues could be resolved, you've now got the issues of a massive table saw on the road and any rock big enough that it can fit in between "wave trough" is probably going to wreak havoc...
To counter the bumpiness you want the torque from both halves to be the same. But that would require differently sized halves.
I like the galloping! Try using 60-75% tires and mount the rear tire lower on the swing arm to fight the leverage on the suspension
Waiting for part 2 😍🔥🔥🔥
I think the reason for the bumpyness is that because of the leverage from the extended controll arm. So if you move the suspension to in between the rear tires it should get a little better, but i think the best solution is just to remove the rear suspension, it would be a harsh ride but
To make both the halves of the back wheel atleast 60-70% of a circle, so that when 1 transitions to the other it'll be smooth n won't make it go up n down.
Agree 100 percent. The change in leverage when transitioning between the two tires is causing the suspension load to oscillate. A hardtail would be the easiest fix.
I agree, I see it like lever, the back wheel is further away from the pivot (fulcrum) point than the front tire. The weight of the bike and rider would cause different moment of torque that would oscillate between the two tires.
Think of it like a cheater bar on an wrench to get even more toque.
I think both the front and rear suspension would have to be taken out
This is exactly the problem. Either re mounting the suspension to the center between the rear wheels... or use a strut that is designed to handle the weight of an extended swing arm... like what drag racing bikes use.
That is exactly what I was thinking, he's essentially Constantly driving up stairs with only the rear wheel
I love this stuff, thanks for making all of this content. I don't have a bike but I really really want one. Keep up all the things you are doing and ignore the critics! Thank you.
Since the bicycle, I've been thinking that each wheel half looks like a long foot...
You know where I'm going with this. Let's have 8-12 wheels each with a shoe, synchronized to either step from front to rear, or from rear to front, tried both ways 😁
Absolutely incredible. Outstanding work.
It's hopping because each time it switches wheels it changes the geometry on the spring and shock. (Think; leverage) Replace the rear shock with something to basically make it a hardtail and I think you'll be surprised. 😎
"we basically have a 50% chance of it working"
Yeah I think that was the 50% you cut off Craig 😁🤣
I absolutely love these guys. Not only are they entertaining as hell, but they truly are good people and always send positive energy through their videos. I’m a Hugeee fan, and I just have to meet these guys someday. 💯👍🏼👍🏼🔥
@Bigballmagrawl09 lol ok sarcasm I like
@mlongstudio lol I was just being silly I don't think they'd really care
@Mikey Ritz Satans temple aren’t devil worshippers, and I don’t have anything to do with them anyway. But since people were going to bring stupid beliefs into the conversation as a requirement for being a better person, and apparently better at mechanical skills… well why not invite everyone.?
@Fitz so what are you some kind of devil worshiper ?
@Mikey Ritz satans temple mechanics are also really talented.
I think Each wheel arc can be extended or elongated to overcome the bouncing effect.
hey im no physics major myself but the bumping seemed to be coming from how much weight was on the 1st rear wheel then transferring the weight to the (furthest)2nd rear wheel. You needed a better shock system or move the whole seat and handlebars back so the weight is more centered.
It looks like a pretty fool idea, time to watch it haha, if you don't want your motorcycle to bounce you should move the suspension so leverage keeps to be the same for any of the half wheels
Hey, i was knowing that the bouncing problem is going to be happen but i thought you will fix until the end. according to my view, you guys need to put the last tyre axle slightly up to the starting rear tyre. i can't actually tell the measurement but you can test it my keeping the last tyre axle upward by testing the rod connecting both rear axles, as i can see there is a connection between both the axles, so you can fix it...
Another problem you will run into at higher speeds is the individual wheels are no longer balanced and will vibrate the bike into basically exploding if you go too fast
Use 60% (as others said) and the hardest solid tires you can find (like indoor forklift tires), your bumpyness will diminish some.
It's bouncing because of the different leverage the different lengths of swingarm have on the spring as the weight changes from tire to tire. The weight of the wheels is also changing back and forth between sprung and unsprung weight at different points on the swingarm/lever. Also..., the front tire becomes additional weight while off the ground but the rear becomes a counter weight while off the ground. In other words the weight felt by the spring is changing.
Let me have that bike 😂
@Michael Scheck I suspect it's not even as simple as making the front one smaller, as the transition from one to the other would still make a bump. I suspect the front wheel could be made a slightly different shape to a semicircle ... perhaps a parabola (or simlar) such that the transition size still matches, but it doesn't heave as much in the middle of the front wheel ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@ChampagneInMeGoldenGrahams would be even more impractical, but you could do 2 wheels in parallel, and counterweight the removed section of each wheel kinda like a crankshaft.
If the wheels are parallel, you could even just rivet some cut half tires like they did and not cut the wheels, then add wheel weights to the empty side of the wheels to balance them properly. Wouldn’t have half wheels anymore, but still have half tires, and that’s kinda the point of the exercise anyway.
@TheUKDave Yes ... I believe you can fix this by making one of the rear half-wheels a larger or smaller (original) diameter than the other...as to how much and which one...???? Havn't thought enough about it yet...LOL
I should have read further before adding my comment, as you have already covered the idea. Running the tires side by side would be the only way to possibly completely eliminate the gallop. Even adding hard tires wouldn't kill it completely in it's current state as the different lengths of the armature where the wheels are attaches would react different to the centrifugal force created by the off balanced wheels. Even side by side this could be problematic since the wheels would be attached to a perpendicular axle that would cause wag instead of a gallop. The only way to make it efficient to any usable speed (for a practical lifetime for a motorcycle) would be to add a third parallel wheel and weight the rims with enough precision to stabilize the centrifugal force between the three.
I think if you replaced rear suspension with solid rod and moved rear rear tire lower few degrees it would improve the ride
Fill the inner tubes/tires with Flex Seal or a mix of Flex Seal and the rubber mulch. Stick them in the hot sun for a couple of days to cure. This should give you an old school solid rubber tire. I also think the rim/tire "halves" need to be greater than 50% of the tires circumference as well for a smoother transition. Thanks for the video!
I think if you had 2 separate cut in half wheels that are cut the exact same way it would be great
I am 23 years old, have been on the internet since i was 8 - 10, throughout this time there have been very few occasions where i watched a full video.. Watching more than one video of the same channel ? Even fewer, this is the first channel in ages that i can't help but watch more of its content, THATS HOW FUCKIN GOOD YOU GUYS ARE
That is truly remarkable. You have managed to bring back the galloping effect of riding a horse while achieving the speed of a modern motorcycle. I am impressed. 🙃 LOL.
If you can market this you will reach two markets at the same time....The Equestrian community and the Motor Sports community.
The real challenge is to make it look and feel like a horse on one half and a modern motorcycle on the other half. I'll leave it to you to decide which half to change.
Respect. Keep doing what you do. It is a lot of fun to follow along.
God Bless
I hope he sees this bro. Im rooting for your date.
Lol so far horses are faster than this one but soon maybe
Speed of modern . motorcycle I doubt that
Don't let the EPA see this
I'm pretty sure it's bumpy because of the edges of the tires are not reinforced, when all the weight is on one edge of the tire it squishes, I would recommend like a steel ring inside of all of the open ends of the tires. also maybe fill the tires with some high density liquid setting foam vs rubber bits.
Nicely done. This was a fun video to watch. Nice quote out of James and a nice touch. The "KTM" vacuum comment was the funniest thing I've heard this year. I'm totally gonna steal that...make some stencils and spray my shop vacs with the Dodge logo: if they work, they suck. God bless.
The suspention is in a leverage changing alot between the tiers. Would need to be in the middle of the wheels to cancel it out. So if you don't redesign it a stiff suspension would be preferable to a not working one.
You need to angle the beginning if the tires, like a knife edge so it's not a solid end hitting the road. Even then you probably need to extend the edge far enough to where it almost meets the other tire like 2 half 🌙. Then you won't have that harsh hammer like feeling happening. Probably need the points to be soft as well so it bends when it hits. I could be excess molded rubber shaped into a crescent, but it needs to extend to where the tips on either tire almost touch probably. It could work though. You could probably do it better with three half tires that way one is always touching the road, but it still needs to cushion when it comes around.
Can you cut reliefs on the edges of the tires so that the leading edge you created isn’t as sharp? Would that help with the ride comfort?
2 possible fixes. 1) Hard tail. 2) Need to move the spring. There will be a spot on the swing arm where the weight of the unloaded tire will balance the leverage difference of the loaded tire which is where the spring needs to be attached. You may have to also counter balance the wheels too but they balance each other out. It's too early for me to work that physics out lol
@dave122288 ...but counterweights would have to move back and forth at the same rate the leverage changes... If I was the lead engineer, and was told to make this tire combination work, keeping cost and weight in mind, I would; 1) 4 link the two tires on the same plane. 2) Figure out the angle of attack for that plane based on terrain intended. 3) Provide appropriate suspension... The oscillating force is equivalent to the rotation speed of the rear tires, vs speed, vs load, forever changing. This is where infinite (∞) is used in math calculations.
@Benny Rest I think I see where you are going. I like your thought process. Think of handles on a wheelbarrow. You can bend the handles any way you want but if you are still the same distance from the fulcrum, nothing changes. In the bike scenario, it would be like holding the wheelbarrow handles at their ends then moving to the rear of the tub. Switching back and forth instantly without a smooth transition in between. Significant weight changes.
@Invincibletro Yes. The oscillating force is much smaller than the force from the difference in leverage the 2 tires apply at the moment though. It may be small enough to just live with for what it is or tune down enough with a damper. If not counterweights would not be difficult and would solve that problem
I thought changing the angle of the rear wheel might help
@Benny Rest When the wheels are like this ( ) this is the exact moment the length of the lever changes, When they are ( ) the lever is the distance between the closest axel and the pivot. What you might be seeing is the A arm angle does change immediately when this transfer happens, lowering the closest axel, or raising it instantly between the transfer between the two levers.
Love the video. Really appreciate the moment of Faith, we need more of this in America, and on UAclips.
The Bicycle guy ended up using three wheels. I agree that you should use at least 60% of the total wheel circumference as well, maybe more. The tires need to stay as rigid as they would when normally inflated. How do you do that?
You folks are awesome! Amazing craftsmanship
It's bumping because the distance between the rear tire keeps changing, because it switches from the rear tire to the rear rear tire, which causes the suspension to adjust over and over again. If you got rid of the suspension and made the rear solid, then I think it would go away. (The leverage against the rear suspension).
Up-n-down is because the most-rear wheel has more leverage on the suspension. And above on that it influences the weight on the front too, it's further away from the centre-of-gravity.
Not a physics major, but I think the added length of the arm going to the backmost tire is increasing the overall torque applied to the suspension. So as it switches it compresses more
Leverage
Agree! Combo of factors but what’s going to fix it? Wonder what lowering straps on the front would do?
@Anthony Rowell 100% agree.
Some taper on the ends of the tread would be helpful as well.
@J Drizzle was it right, or wrong? It's not working, so something is off. I'm thinking it's multiple issues working together rather than a single point issue. I'm not a physics major, but I am a mechanical engineer.
And I'm not claiming that I know everything or anything here, I can only speculate on what the footage shows and an educated guess. Just like everyone else.
The purpose is to find a solution through all of us having a discussion about what we think. Arguing is fun, but non productive.
Let's see what happens.
The weight sitting on the trailing edge of the front drive tire is deforming it. When the leading edge of the rear drive wheel comes in contact with the ground there is no weight(load) on it, making it taller the the trailing edge of the front drive wheel. The tires have to be stiffer or more than 1/2 the circumference so you have overlap where both tires are on the ground at the same time(momentarily)
The tires should be cut 2" off center of 2 different tires using the longer pieces not 1 tire cut in half for starters then swing arm adjusted to perfectly level tires with both tires on the ground before offsetting them away from each other. That will take the bounce away and feel like one tire. Myself and a friend tried this 35+ yrs ago and made the same mistake with a 10spd bike before getting it right. We also removed the valve stem to solid fill the tires ( forget what the stuff was called but used in tractor tires and cured like solid rubber) before cutting them. Worked great felt normal like 1 tire!!!
You need another suspension between wheel 1 and 2 to remove the bouncing... it's like a long lever vs a short one, best yet would be a double suspension between 1 and 2 and remove the original suspension or keep it quite soft , also you should have kept more shoulder on the wheel as the ends of each tyre are softer and can bear less load than the middle part (same reason why we make arches to distribute weight to the extremities... it's not impossible but you'd need materials that are harder at the edges than they are in the middle sections. To make it work perfectly you could get smaller wheels with 360 tubes but larger rubbers on the parts that make contact and constrict the parts that don't to avoid deformation.
Awesome !
Though it looks stupid at its first look, future iterations of this idea may lead to a certain level of behavior like slip differential rear wheels of the car.
Because it takes traction at two different points alternatively, when you cross into deep mud, you get two traction points, of one half may be on harder solid ground while the other half dip slipping in mud.
Futher more, being not a complete circle wheel can get not only traction but a significant normal push at its cut edges to easier get out from heavily slippery mud condition.
So interesting idea for trail and offroad option 😯
It will bottom itself out on a big bump, and center wheel would be stuck tho
I think when the weight transfers to the rear tire the swing arm has more leverage and compresses the suspension and when the front tire comes around it hits the ground hard because the suspension is compressed. I think solid suspension may be the solution
The bumping is because of the length of the swing arm, the inner wheel is putting on a small load or normal load on the suspension but because the outer wheel is further away it will put more load on because it has more leverage. If the outer wheel was further away it will sag even more.
Yeah if anything was deserving of the "do not try at home" title this is definitely a winner! (It's much more fun to do it at work anyways ;) ) Didn't expect it to be able to start galloping like a horse LOL
@The Vibe Been there, done similar! Can totally relate!
@Joris Suffuhrt Answer, why not? Lol I'm still laughing 10 minutes after watching! This was hilarious 😂
@Shattering The Glass Ceiling well, you'd think that's the stupidest thing in the world but today i'll have you know i scraped the ice off my gixxer thaw 2001. it was all good till i hit second and it suzuki'd all over the street.
Biker and bread do have drilling lubricant
It doesn't overheat
Just 1 q. Why?
I would like to mention that the structural integrity of the tires are more compromised at every end of the half cut wheels. I think that even though they share the same load the way to to solve that would be to add a hard rubber like block or seal as a cap to each end of the half wheels. (Can be two inches can be 3-4 inches solid. Just something help take on the tire walls structural compression.) To allow as overcompensation for higher tire compression at the edge of each cut.
It's bouncing, because the split tires are of two different ( EXPANDED LEVELS ) With a normal one piece tire and rim combo... The air pressure is the same all the way around, being two separate 60 / 60 or however you split it ... One tire is compressed more then the other 👍🏼... So... That's why the bike was bouncing 👍🏼... Pretty much the same as a tire separating and getting a blister on the tire, it bounces 😀
@Bikes and Beards And I WILL tune in 😍... You guys are awesome... I grew up in body shops... Worked for a few VERY ELITE high-end car collectors as well... On the level of J- Leno and Jerry Seinfeld 👍🏼... One collection had 6 1926 Franklyn's alone... And one of the only fully restored 1920s Big red Cadillacs ... He had a total of 200 plus cars,trucks and bikes
We will rebuild
After watching the video more, maybe you should find a way to lock the suspension solid. That should completely change everything. Once the bikes on the rear half wheel it drastically changes the leverage on the shock making you dip down than pop back up when you get to the front half
Try to cut like 1/3 of the tire out instead of half so there’s some extra tire to roll off at the half way point that might help the bumpiness of it
The third wheel has more leverage on the suspension, which is why it goes up and down.
Sean, you need to do it to the front wheel as well. That will smooth it out for sure.
Like it says in ...........2nd Opinions 3:5....... "Let's Don't and say we did"
I have a masters degree in mechanical engineering and I approve of this suggestion/comment!! This is -Thēē- solution! 🎉 bravo 🎈🍾 👏🏼 😊
I agree, but then mount two more half-wheels on either side outboard of the fork
im a motorcycle engineer, can confirm
😂
I wonder how would the ride be with the two rear tires intact? It would look pretty cool.
Finally! A perfect bike for me! I’m always tired of my bike riding smooth and stable. I don’t want none of that. This build is the bike of my dreams
the wheels werent at even height i think, this should be much easier with a rigid chassis where you can perfectly line up the wheels horizontally.
Seems like you need a counterweight on the rear wheel if not both but more on the rear because its throwing its weight up further from the bike so the more leverage it has. You could make a sweet one of a logo or image out of steel or aluminum depending on the weight you need
If you wanted to have rear brakes, you totally could. You just need a longer brake hose, and to install the caliper and disk on the new rear wheel. Because the back two wheels are linked with a chain, the brakes on one wheel will affect them both.
The fact that they went frame by frame with the butter knife at 13:32 makes me appreciate these guys so much 😂
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ht
I'm glad you pointed that out I never would have went frame by frame. Attention to detail in these videos is 10/10.
Yes, all 5 of the frames XD
You have to make it work.
Can't wait to see it.
question wouldn't it be smoother if the front wheel was a little smaller and the back wheel a bit bigger? and put in double rear shock, with brake line down the swing arm to rear wheel
I believe the reason its moving up and down is the difference in leverage, one Tire is father then the other from the spring if that makes sence so if you got rid of the spring and made it solid that should go away
Maybe some bracing from the other wheel would help, and it would be cool if you could make it like a tank tread, sort of like a snow mobile