Nick Bostrom: Simulation and Superintelligence | Lex Fridman Podcast #83

I really enjoyed this conversation with Nick. Here's the outline:
0:00 - Introduction
2:48 - Simulation hypothesis and simulation argument
12:17 - Technologically mature civilizations
15:30 - Case 1: if something kills all possible civilizations
19:08 - Case 2: if we lose interest in creating simulations
22:03 - Consciousness
26:27 - Immersive worlds
28:50 - Experience machine
41:10 - Intelligence and consciousness
48:58 - Weighing probabilities of the simulation argument
1:01:43 - Elaborating on Joe Rogan conversation
1:05:53 - Doomsday argument and anthropic reasoning
1:23:02 - Elon Musk
1:25:26 - What's outside the simulation?
1:29:52 - Superintelligence
1:47:27 - AGI utopia
1:52:41 - Meaning of life

There's too much going on in AI right now, bring this man back on the podcast!

Lex your channel is truly amazing, thank you so much for your work man! In 4 days I'm going to graduate with a thesis about AI and I'm learning so so much thanks to your work, every video you post is a masterpiece, beautiful and easy to follow. In time, I hope to become a professor myself and teach philosophy of technology at University. Thank you again, you are an exemple and people like you make UAclips the wonderful thing it is

Honestly, your podcast line up is essentially my ideal dinner party. So many among guests

I've heard all these arguments many times before, but Nick is still one of my favorite people to listen to .............

What a beautiful opening ... Thank you for continuing to inspire this JR High Drop out to learn about quantum mechanics.

So fun. Love listening to these! Keep up the great work Lex!

You have the nicest and most honest introduction you always use - I never skip around in your talks bc you never randomly break the flow to plug something. You're appreciated! Thanks for that and the content. Be it Chomsky, Vitalik, Tegmark... so on and so forth.

Lex is one of my biggest inspirations for making my brain get off its ass when I feel like I'm being mentally lazy and when I'm depressed his podcast always helps me some way or another but I gotta be honest. He seemed like he wasn't feeling this one and in my opinion he doesn't need to do the show when he is in one of these moods. He was a bit of a smartass from the very beginning if you pay attention and it kind of killed the whole thing for me. I somehow missed this one so I know this comment is late and pretty much irrelevant but just damn he wasn't feeling this one and it shows in a huge way. Lex if you read this I love you man but please don't do this in the future. I know this is old but I feel like this could have been my favorite episode if not for the bad energy and I really hope you don't ever waste another great guest again. This one is barley watchable lol but oh well love ya buddy!

A podcast with David Deutsch would be great and a second with Joscha Bach would be wonderful. I've been looking so long for a channel like this. And now i already found it. Also loved Nick Bostroms and Max Tegmarks work. I‘m thrilled. Thank you Lex for this!

Fantastic. Well done Lex. There are many more that are seeing the light. Let's keep bringing these humans together to make this a better place.

Love this, such a crazy/cool conversation. Thanks Lex!

This is the conversation we're all subbed for.

In several podcasts with Nick Bostrom he has touched on the possibility of us learning a new and major idea that changes our entire outlook or way we choose to live...changes what we view as most important. I would love to hear his thoughts on what might happen, how it might change us, if we could prove reincarnation. How would this change the way we live and the choices we make as well as the possible implications on a larger, cosmic scale. Have him back and ask him Lex!

Seriously amazing work . I love everything about this channel . So much information ❤️

Thanks Lex! Yet another great knowledge on ramp. Just bought Superintlligence and I am enjoying my fourth week of Andrew Ng's ML course on coursera. More love to you brother. Thanks for all you do! John

I love your podcasts and guests. Always something to think about even if I don't understand or remember it well.

Lex, I wanted to take a moment to thank you for posting your interview with Bostrom. I would have never had access to that information or dialogue on my own, so I wanted very much to complement the work your are doing and the effort you put forth.

This guy is my new favorite interviewer. He is great to listen to if you want to really follow every word or just some bits and pieces while you fall asleep. His pace and tone are absolutely wonderful to hear. He allows the guest talk and then asks pertinent questions. Most excellent job. Thank you!

Thanks Nick - sharing your insights is much needed for the world

Brilliant people, thanks Lex for your great work! Much respect!!!

Two great minds! Thank you both!

Lex, you are an inspiration. Thank you for your contributions to a field that is very near to my heart.

Love right back at you Lex. You are a wonderful young man. Thank you for your podcasts.

Discovered your podcast a couple weeks ago. All my favorite topics! 🖤💛

Just getting into your podcasts. The thing that strikes me is the pacing of your interviews. It's really very pleasant.

Hi Lex, awesome chat as always. Thankyou for continuing to post content. These discussions are not only fascinating and fun to think about, they serve as a much needed break from everything that's happening in the world right now.

You are the man Lex. Congrats on the million subscribers, you are so close!

Another great conversation with one of my favorite guests. Thanks for all the great work, Lex!

LEX thanks for these most amazing interviews. every darn one of them.

Nick what you said at 59 minutes onward to the point where you said auto potent completely stated my current dilemma progress and feelings thank you Nick thank you so much for getting that out there❤️

This is a fascinating conversation; Nick and Lex are both super knowledgeable about AI (Lex is an expert in developing AI and Nick in the philosophical study about the ramifications of AI - I'm glued to this one more than most!!! Thanks for creating this content!!
=

How does one dislike this video. Very good!! Loved listening to these two discuss!!

Making content for you guys is a blessing, and we can't describe how much that means to us ❤️💖💜. We are forever grateful for you guys making it possible for us to do what we love 🙏❤️. Chasing passions is something we prioritize and hope to inspire you to do the same 🙏
For us, this is a channel and a platform we want to use to help you guys. We hope that we can help you escape from some of the daily pressures and issues we deal with daily. You can always come here on this channel and let go or tell us about how your day has been. We hope that we, as a community of almost 100k people, can help each other raise more positive energy on this planet 💜🙏❤️. There is so much pain and suffering on this planet. So hopefully, this community and channel can be a beacon of light for hope, love, and positivity. If we realize how powerful our thoughts and action are, then it definitely reduces suffering, and that is our goal with our content 🙏
Thank you for being here with us and, we know that as a community we will raise against all the negativity and come out with love, positivity, and joy 🙌💜 Mental health and well-being are super important to us. And hopefully, we can have a long-lasting community where we support each other. 🙏💖
Loving regards,
All the members of the Woke Nation Team ❤️🙏💜🙏

Came to listen to this after trying to listen to the whole JRE with Nick. I figured that the conversation with someone like Lex would develop way further with someone who has deep understanding of CS. I am in no sense well versed in CS besides undergrad classes, but for those who have given deep thought to this subject, can a simulation happen outside of a medium such as computer, or is this inherently a feature of computational systems?

I like Nick bostrom, he’s such a clear thinker

Lex is so well mannered, you can't help but like him.

love the podcast you get some of the most interesting people and intersting conversations, i always enjoy them.

Keep up the interviews. Knowledge is good to share.

Love your opening monologues, Lex.

Nick you're brilliant, we've got you protected given the impacts of your work to humanity and relationships. I am certainly an admirer of yours.

5 am, birds chirping, racing mind, and the inability to sleep. Ahh, what a perfectly timed video to stumble upon.

I found out about this man through Assassin's Creed: Origins! On the message board about Simulation theory on a computer that my character was going through! It's kind of neat!

I must say I really appreciate you & this Podcast mr. Fridman!

Whenever I can't sleep this is my go-to. Thank you lex

Thanks Lex and Nick for such a fascinating discussion. Its so refreshing to have real scientists opening up without the tinfoil hats or religions but jobs having a go or interrupting when discussing this topic. Looking forward to hearing more.
Everything I have studied, investigated and applied all points in this direction.

I think there is a usefulness to knowing we're in a simulation. If we can learn to control it or learn to communicate with the creators, the implications would be pretty crazy.

I had a dream I was within the facility where this simulation is being run. Everyone had a very nice, rather opulent cubicle. I got in trouble for not staying in my cubicle and going into other rooms I wasn't assigned to. So they kicked me out of the facility and asked me not to return. As a parting gift they gave me a software box, and it had the source code for the simulation in it. I was disappointed that it was so minimal, so simple, so I threw the box out instead of keeping it. Then I went outside and enjoyed reality.
If you've experienced and understand the concept of "Procedural Universe" as represented in the game "No Man's Sky" you can understand how simple the coding, how little processing power and storage would be required to generate a convincing simulation of a complex seeming reality.
So the question then is "why make a simulation of this nature?"
The answer becomes evident when you consider how artificial intelligence is nurtured. Neural nets become more connected, more "able" as they're exposed to phenomenon. Perhaps our true nature is something separate from this reality, yet requiring exposure to this kind of phenomenon to "grow" and become more able, more powerful, more able to do "work"?

Great podcast! Brilliant minds! Love! Thank you SIMULATION GOD(S)!

Thoroughly thought challenging and informative. Sir Rodger Penrose has a humility and joy of his craft that inspires the curiosity that’s necessary for learning. Years from now good chance the term “classic” will describe this video.

This is amazing! Please get Terence Tao, Ray Kurzweil and Ed Witten as well!

Amazing Lex - doing an amazing job, such a great guy in search for what there can be rather then BS , loving it

Never heard from Nick before… but wow. What a high level conversation. Guy seems to be putting so many variables about each topic into consideration.

I love the final question; the meaning of life. This got me thinking that perhaps “life” is the game or space we find ourselves in and hence the best answer I can come up with would be, and not glibly, “to get through it as best we can”, with ‘best’ being a more universal connotation. We find ourselves here, there is no choice... so “keep walking” and make it meaningful...

Really enjoying your interview style. Letting the subject speak, novel idea these days. Lol. Lex should definitely be welcomed into the Intellectual Dark Web tribe

Being a simulation works for me, being real is too stressful.

Some pieces I had to listen 5 times to understand but great perspective as a reward. Great talk, thank you.

Loved this interview. Great job Lex. I’m trying to get Nick on my Architects Guide podcast - no luck as yet. Dystopia and Utopia are interwoven permanently. Architects know this. So by extension the two binaries interweave in the simulation.
In addition Kastrup’s hypothesis of irreducible consciousness usurps simulation theory beautifully but doesn’t negate it….

I can honestly say this was one of the most awesome discussions i have ever listened to in my life. Lex has this incredible ability to ask the perfect questions to allow us to get a glimpse into the minds of these geniuses.

I have been waiting for Nick Bostrom to appear for months. Thank you again Lex! :D

These are such wonderful people who come on this show - this channel needs to STAY - or at the very least be replicated.
This UAclips channel is a service to humanity - a work of art - and a beautiful thing.
I hope that anyone who has any care at all for the future of humanity - and all life - will support Lex in any way that they can. 🙂

Lex, the interviews you do are the best I found so far. Greetings from a middle aged woman in Sweden.

Your podcast is incredible ✨🤍🔥💫
Thanks

I love the precise and logical way Nick Bostrom answers questions. Philosophers are the computer scientists of the humanities.

Nick bostrom is maybe the most important person for how humans have to think the nearest time

Awwwwwwee yahhh! This will be great excited as usual and watching straight away! Thank you for all you do, Lex!😁

Both these SOB's having this conversation in their second language 🙌💪

Thank you for this exciting conversation! Especially the quote at the very end 1:55:50 :
"Our approach to existential risks can not be one of trail and error.
There's no opportunity to learn from errors.
The reactive approach […] is unworkable.
Rather, we must take a proactive approach.
This requires foresight to anticipate new types of threats
and a willingness to take decisive preventative action
and to bear the costs, moral and economic, of such actions."
Nick Bostrom
Being able to adapt into a society of that sort may very well be the decider whether we hit an early filter or not.

Just drove 600 miles listening to you lex. I couldn't help but wonder how many people on 95 south were listening too. Thanks for the entertainment

Excellent interview! Very objective and thoroughly explorative. Intelligence, the ability to solve complex problems, the use of interconnections and dynamism of Systems A and Blue.

Oh, I love the epilogue 1:55:50 you’ve added at the end. Quite fitting for the times 😊

I exist in base reality, and I just want to say you are all doing a really great job. Keep going! This is why your simulation was built so please enjoy the experience! :)

You could measure the speed of light from how fast I clicked on this. Lex you are the premier intellectual interviewer of this generation. Phenomenal individual & good hearted human

Thank you both, great interview! I read Superintelligence, and it would comfort Nick: from cover to cover. I like that he comes to a pretty simple conclusion here on the human values (he mentions for example generosity) that we should give to general AI: at first this should be a broad set of values (or essential goals?) to achieve. Then later its evaluation can be finetuned.
In computer chess we have a world champion Lc0 (or Leela, which is a community built neural net modelled after and improving on Alpha Zero). It just beat Leelenstein, which is derived from Lc0, but not trained by self play but by selected machine games. Overall Leelenstein's rating is higher, and we got lots of draws, but it seems that the fast self play of Lc0 prevailed to steadily improve a deeply tactical and unusual position (in the penultimate game of tiebreak 3 in match 2 that was). Latest news is the parameters of the evaluation function of the old school chess calculator Stockfish (runner up at this CCC14) will be governed by a neural net in the future. Cheers!

After Vitalik and Simon, you drop this bomb on us! Lex, god bless you and your podcast. This guy is an inspiration, both of his books, Anthropic Bias: Observation Selection Effects in Science and Philosophy (2002) and Superintelligence: Paths, Dangers, Strategies (2014) are truly amazing reads.
I hope to see you @ MIT if I get a chance to do a talk there.

Our ultimate question might end up being: can a real person learn more from a simulated person than another real person? And what is the answer> Would it depend on the original simulator and whether or not they wanted real people to learn more. Oh, geeze! I am going to start running around yelling FERMI, Fermi!! in order that Nick and Lex, should I ever have the privilege to be in the same room with them, will at least find me interesting enough to allow me to hang around and listen to their side-bar conversations. I will probably come back to listen to this particular session many times.

Congratulations, Lex! You finally found the guy who will answer your "Are we living in a simulation?" question! : )

Don’t sell out Lex, you are very much needed to bridge the Laymen with the academics.
You will have one of the biggest channels in the near future, you are a teacher of teachers🇬🇧👊🏼

Since we can simulate the neurons of a roundworm in python, we can imagine a roundworm lex asking these questions. Is he one of the simulated round worm lexes or a real one? Depends on number of those who joined openworm vs number of real worms perhaps. I love Nick, this guy would be super fun to hang with.

So much information from this man.
Thanks.

Congrats on all your channel's progress. Its a no brainier sub

this might very well be the most intelligent human on earth. absolutely incredible conversation

Good conversation. Great job. Thought provoking

Was anticipating Bostrom's presence on this podcast since an eon. I appreciate the amount of time spent setting clear definitions and enumerating hypotheses but I honestly hoped that this conversation would've delved much deeper and would've generated many more grand open questions for everyone, including both of them.
Since Lex has always been asking the question of simulations to interested guests, I am just assuming that there will be a further follow-up podcast with Nick which will commence from where you don't have to establish firm ground. And also that Lex will impart some accessible insights from his research to the guests so that their thinking can be more inter-disciplinary leading to generation of even greater holistic ideas.

I loved this talk truly, wasnt trying to be confrontational. ❤️❤️❤️

Finally found this channel, nice to talk to the super intelligent for a change lol 😆

I was hoping for some more philosophical conversations. Thanks, Lex.

The frog lit the stove, jumped in the pot and, for entertainment, watches innumerable episodes of Lex, marveling at its intelligence.

So frustrating that when Lex asked what an AGI takeover would look like and he was going to answer, got side tracked, and never got back to it. Lex really drops the ball sometimes.

A wonderful interview. Lex, you are the Nick Bostrom of interviewers.

Thank you Lex ,thanks for this .Thanks for all of it.

Finally, the podcast and the interviewer Nick Bostrom deserved 👍🏻

Your channel is amazing and I have been listen to most of the interviews.

The perfect guest for this podcast!

This conversation is very underrated the possibilities of simulation theory could not just open up a new idea of creation but a whole new concept of reality. IMO the ones who fray away from that are too scared of not being able to understand what’s on the other side.

If I had an experience machine I would experience a lex Fridman podcast with Sam Harris as a guest

Thank you so much for the conversation.

Consciousness knows no physical boundaries
In the end and now this is
Experience
Great topic and this conversation is why I subbed

So in the very last sentence Nick Bostrom, the super human logic mashine, answeres finally the seemingly easiest question that has been asked but the one he struggled the most with. The question about what he values, what he has joy in. It‘s obviously talking to somebody who listens and tries to really understand and learn.

I had a dream once that I was discussing whether or not to leave the universe. I was offered a choice to hop out of the simulation and let someone else play. I was depressed and I accepted it. It was one of those dreams that is so vivid it fucks with your perception of reality upon waking. I don't think it was real, but who knows? Maybe I'll be you next (cue twilight zone theme)